Episode 948 | Gun Violence in NM Part 1: Responsible Gun Ownership
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Episode 948 | Gun Violence in NM Part 1: Responsible Gun Ownership


>>GUN OWNERSHIP IS ONE OF THE
HOTTEST POLITICAL DEBATES IN THE COUNTRY AND IT HAS BEEN THAT WAY
FOR SOME TIME. IS IT POSSIBLE TO FIND COMMON
GROUND ON POLICIES THAT WOULD ALLOW FOR GUN OWNERSHIP AND KEEP
GUNS OUT OF THE HANDS OF PEOPLE WHO MIGHT HURT THEMSELVES OR
OTHERS? THIS MONTH WE’RE LOOKING AT GUN
OWNERSHIP FROM DIFFERENT ANGLES. WE’LL HEAR FROM CURRENT AND
FORMER LAW ENFORCEMENT, GUN OWNERS, VICTIMS OF DOMESTIC
VIOLENCE AND HEALTHCARE PROVIDERS.
IF YOU WANT TO SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON GUN OWNERSHIP AND
THE NATIONAL DEBATE OVER GUN CONTROL, GET IN TOUCH WITH US AT
NEWMEXICOINFOCUS.ORG OR FIND US ON FACEBOOK AND TWITTER.
CORRESPONDENT GWYNETH DOLAND SAT DOWN WITH GUN OWNERS AND
ADVOCATE FOR INCREASED CONTROL TO GET THEIR TAKE ON WHAT THE
DEBATE OVER GUN OWNERSHIP LOOKS LIKE RIGHT NOW IN NEW MEXICO.
>>MY GUESTS TODAY ARE DAWN AMDOR, FIREARMS INSTRUCTOR AND
FACILITATOR OF WOMEN’S SHOOTING LEAGUE; OWEN BROWN, A TEACHER AT
HEALTH LEADERSHIP HOME SCHOOL AND MIRANDA VISCOLI IS WITH NEW
MEXICANS TO PREVENT GUN VIOLENCE.
THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING WITH US.>>I WANT TO START WITH YOU, YOU
GREW UP IN A RURAL PART OF NEW MEXICO.
AND GUNS WERE A PART OF EVERYDAY LIFE FOR YOU AND YOUR NEIGHBORS
AND FAMILY. DESCRIBE TO ME THE SCENE IN THE
PARKING LOT OF YOUR HIGH SCHOOL.>>GRADUATED IN 2001, TO GIVE
YOU AN IDEA OF MY AGE. SHOTGUNS IN EVERY RACK.
A 22 UNDER THE BENCH SEAT IN THE TRUCK; GUNS IN THE PARKING LOT
WERE NOT AN UNUSUAL OCCURRENCE.>>IS THAT WHAT IT IS LIKE AT
YOUR SCHOOL NOW?>>I WOULD SAY THERE IS PROBABLY
SOME BUT THERE IS DEFINITELY NOT ANY VISIBLE IN THE RACK,
SHOTGUNS, OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. YOU KNOW.
I WENT TO HIGH SCHOOL PRE-COLUMBINE.
THAT IS THE DIVIDING LINE THERE. THERE HAS DEFINITELY BEEN CHANGE
IN POLICY SINCE THEN.>>WAS IT A CHANGE FOR YOU WHEN
YOU MOVED FROM EASTERN NEW MEXICO TO ALBUQUERQUE AND YOU
WERE BURGLARIZED WHEN YOU MOVED HERE.
>>I WAS, YEAH, A COUPLE OF YEARS AFTER I MOVED HERE.
YOU KNOW, GROWING UP I ONLY KNEW ONE PERSON WHO OWNED A PROPER
GUN SAFE. THE MAN HAD AN EXPENSIVE
COLLECTION OF FIREARMS AND WAS PROBABLY ONE OF THE MORE
AFFLUENT MEMBERS OF OUR COMMUNITY AND EVERYONE ELSE JUST
PUT THEM IN A CLOSET, YOU KNOW, UP HIGH.
AND YOU STORED THE AMMO ELSEWHERE.
AND IF YOU WERE FANCY, YOU HAD A BOOK SHELF WITH A BUILT IN GLASS
DISPLAY CASE, YOU KNOW. AND, SO I DIDN’T THINK ANYTHING
OF IT UNTIL I LIVED IN NOB HILL AND MY HOUSE WAS BURGLARIZED AND
I PROBABLY LOST 3,000, $4,000 WORTH OF FIREARMS.
>>IT IS A LOT OF MONEY, RIGHT? BUT MIRANDA WHAT ARE YOU
THINKING WHEN YOU HEAR ABOUT GUNS BEING STOLEN.
>>LOCK THEM UP. I MEAN, WE HAVE — AND
ESPECIALLY THE AMOUNT OF GUNS STOLEN IN NEW MEXICO IN
AUTOMOBILES, YOU HAVE TO LOOK UP YOUR FIREARMS.
IT IS NOT JUST PEOPLE ARE STEALING THEM TO BE DOING
ANYTHING GOOD WITH THEM, RIGHT. WE PROMOTE LOCKING UP GUNS,
ESPECIALLY WITH CHILDREN IN THE HOMES AND WITH SUICIDAL KIDS.
WE HAVE A HUGE PROBLEM WITH TEENAGE SUICIDE IN THIS STATE,
SECOND LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH. SUICIDE.
ALMOST HALF OF THEM ARE DONE WITH A FIREARM.
WE REALLY BELIEVE YOU SHOULD LOCK UP YOUR GUNS.
NEW MEXICAN AGAINST GUN VIOLENCE, WE TRAVEL THE STATE
AND GIVE OUR FREEDOM LOCKS. WE WERE JUST AT THE JICARILLA
TRIBE, RIO ARRIBA HEALTH FAIR, WE’LL BE AT PLACITAS NEXT WEEK
HANDING OUT FREE GUN LOCKS WHICH WE ARE PAYING FROM OUR OWN BANK
ACCOUNT AND EDUCATIONAL MATERIAL ON THE IMPORTANCE OF KEEPING
GUNS LOCKED UP.>>AFTER THAT, YOU CHANGED THE
WAY YOU KEEP A GUN.>>YEAH, DIDN’T TOTALLY CLEAR ME
OUT SO I WENT AND BOUGHT A GUN SAFE AND I HAVE BEEN MOVING THAT
THING AROUND. THAT WAS 10 YEARS AGO, WHEN I
WAS BURGLARIZED SO ALL MY GUNS HAVE BEEN LOCKED UP SINCE.
I HAD CHILDREN IN BETWEEN NOW AND THEN, SO, THE IMPORTANCE OF
LOCKING THEM UP DEFINITELY INCREASED.
>>DAWN, IN SOME PARTS OF THE COUNTRY, THIS ISN’T REQUIRED
HERE BUT IN SOME PLACES THERE ARE LAWS REQUIRING THAT GUNS ARE
LOCKED UP, EITHER THAT A LOCK BE PUT ON EACH GUN LIKE THESE FOLKS
ARE PASSING OUT OR THAT THEY ARE KEPT IN SAFES LIKE OWEN DOES.
THE STATE OF MASSACHUSETTS DOES THIS, FOR EXAMPLE.
AND SOME PROPOSALS ARE CONSIDERED IN COMMUNITIES
ELSEWHERE. DO YOU THINK IT IS REASONABLE TO
REQUIRE THAT GUN OWNERS ALWAYS LOCK UP THEIR GUNS ALL THE TIME?
>>I DON’T FEEL PERSONALLY THAT IT IS A REASONABLE REQUEST.
I APPLAUD THE EFFORTS THAT MIRANDA AND HER GROUP ARE DOING
IN EDUCATING PEOPLE IN THE SAFE STORAGE OF FIREARMS.
BUT AS FAR AS MY PERSONAL OPINION, I STORE MY FIREARMS, SO
I KNOW EXACTLY WHERE THEY ARE, HOW THEY ARE TO BE ACCESSED, AND
IN WHAT CONDITION ARE THEY STORED?
FOR SOMEONE ELSE TO COME IN AND TELL ME EXACTLY HOW TO DO THAT I
DON’T THINK IS APPROPRIATE. AS AN INSTRUCTOR AND COMPETITIVE
SHOOTER, I KNOW MORE ABOUT MY GUNS THAN ANYONE COULD COME IN
AND TELL ME PROBABLY IN MY HOUSE.
>>SO, I MEAN, I WANT TO ASK YOU WHERE YOU KEEP THEM BUT I
IMAGINE YOU DON’T WANT TO TELL ME.
>>EXACTLY.>>BUT THEY ARE NOT ALL LOCKED
UP.>>THEY ARE ALL SECURED.
WE DO HAVE CHILDREN AND I THINK THAT PEOPLE NEED TO BE EDUCATED
AND UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCES IN STORING THEIR GUNS.
IF YOU HAVE CHILDREN OR TEENAGERS THAT COME OVER TO YOUR
HOUSE THAT ARE NOT YOURS, THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF STORAGE IS
VARIED SO, YES, OUR GUNS ARE ALL SECURED.
>>WHAT DOES SECURED MEAN TO YOU?
>>SECURED FOR US MEANS THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT WILL ACCESS THOSE
PARTICULAR FIREARMS ARE MY HUSBAND OR MYSELF.
>>WHAT ARE SOME OF THE TECHNIQUES THAT YOU USE TO
SECURE.>>WE USE BIOMETRIC SAFES.
WE USE LARGE DEAD BOLT TYPE SAFES SO IT DEPENDS ON THE TYPE
OF GUN WE ARE STORING. IF IT IS A HUNTING RIFLE, WE
OBVIOUSLY ARE NOT GOING TO STORE THAT IN A CONDITION THAT IS
READY TO GO BECAUSE WE’RE NOT HUNTING.
IF IT IS A SELF DEFENSE FIREARM, WE MIGHT STORE THAT IN A
DIFFERENT CONDITION. BUT, I WANT TO STRESS THE
IMPORTANCE OF EDUCATING OUR CHILD OR CHILDREN HAVE BEEN
EDUCATE ABOUT FIREARMS FROM THE TIME THAT THEY WERE YOUNG AND I
THINK THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND I THINK SOMETIMES IS A SCARY
CONVERSATION FOR PARENTS TO HAVE WITH THEIR CHILDREN.
SO, THERE ARE RESOURCES OUT THERE THAT WILL GET YOU THE
INFORMATION THAT YOU NEED IN ORDER TO DO THAT.
>>MIRANDA, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE — OWEN IS MY AGE, WERE IN SCHOOL
WHEN THE COLUMBINE SHOOTING HAPPENED.
THESE YOUNG MEN, THEY WERE ABLE TO BUY GUNS BECAUSE OF A LOOP
HOLE IN THE SYSTEM THAT DOESN’T REQUIRE THE SAME KIND OF
BACKGROUND CHECKS FOR GUN SHOWS THAT ARE REQUIRED AT GUN STORES.
IS THAT RIGHT.>>RIGHT.
SO BASICALLY THE LEGISLATION WE HAVE BEEN WORKING ON FOR SOME
TIME IS CLOSING THE GUN SHOW LOOP HOLE.
RIGHT NOW A DOMESTIC FELON, A DOMESTIC VIOLENCE OFFENDER,
TEENAGER CAN GO INTO A GUN SHOW AND BUY A FIREARM, NO QUESTIONS
ASKED. I HAVE SEEN IT HAPPEN.
THERE ARE FOLKS WALKING UP AND DOWN THE AISLE WITH RIFLES THAT
SAY $400 CASH RIGHT HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE.
WE HAVE TO REALLY GO AFTER ONLINE SALES.
IF YOU WENT TO ARMS LIST, WHAT IS FOR SALE TODAY IN
ALBUQUERQUE? THERE IS A LOT OF PRIVATE
SELLERS WHERE YOU CAN GO TO BUY A FIREARM.
YOU GO TO THE PARKING LOT AND YOU BUY THAT FIREARM.
WE ARE VERY MUCH FOR UNIVERSAL BACKGROUND CHECKS.
WHEN I COMES TO CHILDREN AND GUNS, CHILD ACCESS PREVENTION
LAWS DO WORK. BASICALLY WHAT IT SAYS IS, IF
YOU HAVE A FIREARM IN YOUR HOUSE AND THAT CHILD GETS HOLD OF THAT
FIREARM, HURTS THEMSELVES OR SOMEBODY ELSE, THAT THE PARENTS
ARE LIABLE. YOU ARE AN EXTREMELY RESPONSIBLE
GUN OWNER. IF EVERYBODY WAS LIKE YOU, I
COULD RETIRE. I WOULDN’T HAVE TO DO THIS
ANYMORE. WE NEED 100,000 MORE OF YOU,
BUT, WHAT THIS DOES IS IT EDUCATES THOSE PARENTS WHO
AREN’T THINKING THAT A CHILD CAN GET A HOLD OF A FIREARM AND
DIANE YOUNG DID A GREAT SERIES CALLED YOUNG GUNS, AND THEY HAD
KIDS THAT WERE TAUGHT OVER AND OVER, SINCE DAY ONE, DON’T TOUCH
THE FIREARMS. AND, YOU HAD PARENTS WHOSE KIDS
ARE NO LONGER WITH THEM AND THEY SAID WE HAVE BEEN TELLING THIS
KID, ESPECIALLY THE FIVE YEAR OLD.
>>YOU CAN’T TEACH CURIOSITY OUT OF A 5 YEAR OLD.
WE EXPECTS TOO MUCH ON KIDS AND IT REALLY NEEDS TO BE THE
RESPONSIBILITY OF THE PARENTS.>>I WANT TO GO BACK TO GUN
SHOWS FOR A MINUTE. I HAVE BEEN TO A GUN SHOW AT THE
STATE FAIR. I THOUGHT IT WAS COOL.
I GOT TO SEE LITTLE DERRINGERS AND MUSKETS AND WEIRD THINGS YOU
ONLY SEE ON TV. OWEN, HAVE YOU BOUGHT GUNS AT A
GUN SHOW?>>YEAH, AND THERE ARE TWO TYPES
OF SALES AT A GUN SHOW. FEDERAL FIREARM LICENSE, JUST
LIKE IN A STORE, SO, THE GUN STORES THAT I FREQUENT IN TOWN
THEY TAKE SOME OF THE INVENTORY, GO THERE, AND THEY RUN A
BACKGROUND CHECK. WHAT YOU’RE REFERENCING ARE
PRIVATE SALES. IF I DECIDE I WANT TO SELL A GUN
TO DAWN AND DAWN DECIDES TO BUY IT, THERE IS NO BACKGROUND CHECK
THERE.>>IS IT UNREASONABLE TO ASK
THAT ALL OF THESE SALES ARE EQUAL; THAT ALL OF THE GUN SALES
GO THROUGH SOME SORT OF BACKGROUND CHECK SYSTEM?
>>I AM NOT SURE UNREASONABLE IS THE WORD BUT IS THAT POSSIBLE.
AS A PRIVATE SELLER, IF I WERE TO SELL ONE OF MY FIREARMS, I
WOULD NOT BE SELLING THAT TO JUST ANY INDIVIDUAL OFF THE
STREET. ALSO, THE INDIVIDUAL OFF THE
STREET WHO IS LOOKING FOR THAT FIREARM, IF THEY GO TO — IF WE
MOVE TO A COMPLETE BACKGROUND CHECK FOR EVERY GUN SALE, ID
THEY REALLY WANT THAT FIREARM, I FULLY BELIEVE THEY’LL FIND IT,
WHETHER THEY GO TO OWEN’S HOUSE AND STEAL IT OR BUY IT IN THE
BACK STREET SOMEPLACE IN THE TOWN OF ALBUQUERQUE.
>>NOW, AFTER SANDY HOOK, SHOOTINGS AT SANDY HOOK IN
CONNECTICUT. THE PUBLIC REACTED TO THAT IN
MANY DIFFERENT WAYS. SOME PEOPLE SAID WE NEED TO
CRACK DOWN ON GUNS, LOCK THEM UP, WE NEED TO MAKE THEM HARDER
TO GET.>>WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT
GOOD GUYS WITH GUNS CARRY THEM TO SCHOOLS IN CASE SOMETHING
HAPPENS AND THEY ARE THERE.>>MIRANDA, YOU SUPPORT GUNS
FREE SCHOOL. WHY?
>>I DO NOT THINK IT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF A TEACHER TO
HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT TO DO IF AN ARMED PERSON COMES INTO THE
SCHOOL AND IT IS THEIR RESPONSIBILITY WITH FIREARM TO
PROTECT THOSE CHILDREN. THAT IS NOT WHAT A KINDERGARTEN
TEACHER WANTS TO DO AND IT DOESN’T MAKE OUR SCHOOLS SAFER.
WE HAVE SEEN TEACHERS THAT HAVE BEEN BRINGING FIREARMS TO
SCHOOL. A TEACHER SHOT HERSELF IN THE
FOOT IN A BATHROOM STALL. I MEAN, THE AMOUNT OF TRAINING
THIS WOULD TAKE TO PROTECT THOSE STUDENTS AND YOU REALLY HAVE TO
ASK, WHY HAVEN’T WE GOTTEN THERE?
>>SOME OF THEM ARE WELL TRAINED.
OWEN, YOU STARTED SHOOTING IN 4H, AS A LITTLE KID.
HOW WOULD YOU FEEL? WOULD YOU LIKE TO CARRY A GUN IN
YOUR SCHOOL IN ORDER TO PROTECT IT FROM AN EMERGENCY.
>>I NEVER LIKED THE IDEA OF HAVING TO CARRY A GUN TO PROTECT
MYSELF. BUT, PERSONALLY IT WOULD NOT
BOTHER ME IF I CARRIED A GUN. I DO SHOOT OFTEN, I HAVE A CARRY
PERMIT, LOTS OF TRAINING. I HAVE MET SOME TEACHERS THAT
WOULD NOT LIKE TO CARRY GUNS AT ALL.
AND I DON’T THINK THAT THERE IS ANY SORT OF DECIDING LINE, WELL,
THEY ARE WEIRD SO YOU DON’T GET TO DO THAT.
IT IS A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT. IF YOU OPEN IT UP, HOW DO YOU
DECIDE.>>IT’S NOT A CONSTITUTIONAL
RIGHT IN SCHOOLS.>>WE ARE TALKING ABOUT WAYS TO
CHANGE. I WANT TO WRAP UP WITH THREE
QUICK QUESTIONS. DAWN, STAYING ON THE SUBJECT OF
KIDS, THE THIRD LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH FOR CHILDREN IN NEW MEXICO
IS HOMICIDE AND NEARLY 75% OF THOSE KIDS ARE SHOT.
WHAT SHOULD WE DO TO PREVENT SO MANY CHILDREN FROM BEING KILLED
WITH GUNS IN NEW MEXICO?>>I THINK YOU HAVE GOT TO
STRESS THE EDUCATION OF THE ADULTS WHO OWN THESE FIREARMS.
YOU HAVE GOT TO STRESS THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE TO BE RESPONSIBLE.
IT IS A LIFE-STYLE TO OWN A FIREARM IN ANYPLACE.
AND SO, IF THAT IS YOUR LIFE-STYLE, THEN YOU NEED TO BE
ADEQUATELY PREPARED AND YOU NEED TO GET ADEQUATE TRAINING IN
ORDER TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN.>>MIRANDA, NEW MEXICO’S GUN
DEATH RATE IS 40% HIGHER THAN THE U.S. AVERAGE.
HOW CAN WE TURN THAT AROUND?>>SEVERAL WAYS.
WE HAVE TO LOOK AT SUICIDE, THE LEADING CAUSE.
AND ALSO WE BOAST SOME OF THE WEAKEST GUN LAWS IN THE COUNTRY.
WE HEAR OVER AND OVER, DON’T PASS MORE GUN LAWS, ENFORCE WHAT
WE HAVE. WE DON’T HAVE ANY.
AND WE NOW ACTUALLY HAVE EVIDENCE THAT SHOWS THAT STATES
WITH HIGHER, MORE STRICT GUN LAWS ACTUALLY HAVE LESS GUN
VIOLENCE. SO WE NEED TO DO SIMPLE THINGS
LIKE THE FACT THAT A DOMESTIC VIOLENCE OFFENDER, UNDER A
RESTRAINING ORDER, CAN KEEP THEIR FIREARM.
GET RID OF THAT. 2/3 OF OUR DOMESTIC VIOLENCE
HOMICIDE DEATHS ARE WITH A FIREARM.
THAT IS ONE THING WE CAN QUICKLY DO.
WE NEED UNIVERSAL BACKGROUND CHECKS.
WE ARE BEHIND CHILD ACCESS PREVENTION.
>>I WANT TO COME BACK TO YOU WITH TEENAGERS.
MIRANDA MENTIONED THE SECOND LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH IN NEW
MEXICO IS SUICIDE. WHAT DO YOU THINK WE CAN DO TO
PREVENT TEEN SUICIDES, IN PARTICULAR THAT HAPPEN WITH
GUNS?>>WELL, I WOULD SAY THAT IS A
TWO-PRONGED APPROACHED. YOU HAVE THE PARENTS.
YOU KNOW, IT IS THEIR RESPONSIBILITY SO SECURE THAT
FIREARM TO MAKE SURE THAT YOUR CHILD, NO MATTER THEIR EMOTIONAL
CONDITION, CAN’T ACCESS IT WITHOUT YOUR PERMISSION.
AND ON TOP OF THAT, I TAUGHT AT WEST MESA HIGH SCHOOL FOR FIVE
YEARS. THEY HAD A PHENOMENAL
INTERVENTION PROGRAM IN PLACE AND IT WAS UNIQUE TO THAT HIGH
SCHOOL IN THE DISTRICT. IF YOU HAD ANY SORT OF SITUATION
WHERE YOU THOUGHT A CHILD WAS HURTING THEMSELVES OR GOING TO,
YOU STOPPED EVERYTHING AND TOOK THEM TO A SPECIFIC SOCIAL
WORKER. THEY DID AN ASSESSMENT.
PARENTS HAD TO COME GET THEM. AND TAKE THEM FOR A PROFESSIONAL
EVALUATION. WHICH LED TO OFTENTIMES SERVICES
THAT WERE IN A PROLONGED TIME SETTING.
>>WELL, THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH FOR BEING WITH US TODAY AND
TALKING ABOUT RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERSHIP AND THE MANY TENETS OF
IT. THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

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